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tv   Risk and Reward With Deidre Bolton  FOX Business  October 14, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT

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the largest decline in 27 years shaved off more than 44 points on the dow. david: that dow is scary. netflix falling a bit after disappointing earnings report. the streaming power player was down 14% just moments after the earnings miss. now losses are 6%. >> that does it for us. "risk & reward" starts right now. >> greed and recklessness and illegal behavior of wall street, where fraud is a business model. >> i represented wall street as senator from new york and i went to wall street in december of 2007 before the big crash that we had and i basically said, cut it out! >> congress does not regulate wall street. wall street regulates congress. >> the people of our country need a president who is on their side willing to protect the main street economy from recklessness on wall street. deirdre: democrats are on the attack. watch out wall street. welcome to "risk & reward."
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i'm deirdre bolton. there was populist tone in the democratic debate. the message? the financial industry should be reined in more than it has been in recent years. we have gary kaltbaum and jared levy. gary, what is the beg role for banks in society? big and boring like utilities like dems imply or risk-takers that bankers and republicans tend to favor? >> i think there is darn good in between. no doubt in '08 some of these people took inordinant amount of risk and no doubt some of these people should have gone to jail. all the talk railing against wall street and banks by people that have never create ad dime of wealth is absolutely amazing. the dow was 125 bernie sanders was born. it has gone to 18,000 at high, creating trillions of dollars of wealth and millions and millions of jobs. they keep ripping them on daily basis. amazing to watch in real time.
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deirdre: jared, picking up on something gary said about risk-takers and who they are, a lot of restrictions on wall street basically meant like water moving around the block, risk-takers go somewhere else. that is to say to hedge funds, to private equity. is it somehow better in those private hands or worse? >> all these politicians talk about risk and danger. none of them ever trade traded a derivative. this is what i've done since i'm 16. i'm incensed and i'm a little more liberal. the reason is, deirdre, you put into something like dodd-frank which force big banks to become even stronger and take away a lot of benefits they were giving to consumers. in reality the liberals and namely democrats who formed these bills took a lot of power away from consumers and they
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took away power from smaller banks who were nice to consumers. in my mind, no, it is -- deirdre: to your point, jared, it is as if, the government did actually punish the banks but the banks just handed down those punishments i think is what you're saying to the average person instead of taking it themselves which is a point well-made. as far as from wall street to main street, free health care, free education, lots of benefits and a lot of talk and a lot of questions who can pay what and how. >> when you look around the world you see every other major country providing health care to all people as a right. >> i want to enhance the benefits for the poorest recipients of social security. >> every kid in this country should be able to get a high school education, regardless of the income of their family. i think we have to say that is true for everybody going to college.
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>> i want to open up the opportunity for immigrants to be able to buy into the exchanges under the affordable care act. deirdre: republican presidential candidate, senator marco rubio responded to this morning on "varney." >> the private sector is what creates growth, not government spending. i heard one of the candidates say we have to get the economy growing again by building more roads and more bridges, things of that nature. those are infrastructure ililill not grow the economy. you grow the economy by making america the easiest and best place in the world to create jobs. deirdre: my political power panel is here. republican strategist, mercedes schlapp. she said we can't afford all this democratic spending. strategist cliff schechter saying we should spend as much as possible on defense. mercedes, what was the most disturbing thing that you heard last night? >> i think there were several disturbing things.
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you talked about it was a populist tone. i call it an expensive tone in this debate. they didn't really offer any serious economic solutions other e. we know that will not be enough in any way boost our economic growth at this point. you take what bernie sanders's plan and what he offers, you're talking $18 trillion in government spending. that could would increase government spending from 20% of the our gdp to 30% of our gdp he talks about free tuition. great. you know how much that will cost? $750 billion! he talks about everyone getting medicare. that is $15 trillion. this is serious money we're talking about here. i think the fact is they don't have the solution. this is a fundamental question about what the role is of government and for these democrats they made it very clear they want bigger government, more spending. the question is, like margaret
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thatcher said will we run, will we run out of resources? deirdre: running out of other people's money. >> exactly, exactly. deirdre: cliff, i know in theory you agree with some of what mercedes said but you said we should be spending more on defense? >> no, not on defense. look, there are plenty of other programs we should be spending on. what mercedes said, start with what marco rubio said, spending on infrastructure doesn't create positive economics for us. well the chamber of commerce says it does. they lobby for it all the time. they may want to have conversation with big backer of republican party who would completely stand up and say he is wrong. in addition education spending, ceos say we don't have educated enough workforce. they need to go somewhere else to find people to do the jobs. many corporate ceos would tell you they need education. it is economic development. this investment. this is what companies do. this is what individuals do. whether we're talking about what mercedes is saying, oh, we don't have money for this, we don't have money for that.
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we have money to give 40 billion in subsidies to multibillion-dollar oil industry. we have money to give $700 billion to the defense industry. rand corporation says cutting out bureaucracy we save $80 billion. we don't have people from bottom of the ladder who can't afford food or education but do for people making billions of dollars? that is silly and is count remember productive to our economy. >> more people in poverty, more people receiving food stamps. this is all under president obama's last several years, in six years. so i think would say -- >> how many jobs he created versus george w. bush? >> let's look -- >> how many jobs did bill clinton create? deirdre: finish your point there. >> you have a low labor participation rate, plus an economy that as we know is sluggish, not where it needs to be at this point. we need to get this economy booming again. and part of it is --
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>> can i please respond to that. deirdre: cliff, go ahead. >> let me respond at that that first of all, your candidate mitt romney was hoping he could bring unemployment down to 6%. we're below 5%. mitt romney was saying he wanted to bring stock market back from the great george w. bush stock market crash. it is almost highest level of all time under president obama. bill clinton created 22 million jobs. president obama created millions of jobs? how much did george w. bush create, negative 700,000? deirdre: just a minute, mercedes, they make a good point about the labor market. the labor force participation rate. >> incredibly low. deirdre: we will be right back with you in a minute. we also want to just talk about some of these other schemes, democrats giving answer to the country's greatest threat. >> it is certainly the chaos in the middle east is no doubt about it. >> i believe the nuclear iran remains biggest threat along with spread of isil.
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climate change makes cascading threats even worse. >> has to be continued threats from the spread of nuclear weapons, nuclear materials that can fall into the wrong hands. >> scientific community is tell us with we do not address global climate change, transform energy system away from fossil fuel -- >> long-term strategic challenge is ree relations with china. the greatest day too day threat is cyber warfare. deirdre: there is range what each candidate thinks is the biggest threat. i want to bring in a former state department official. in your mind, we heard there, basically global warming. we heard china. nobody said isis and russia. what is your take. >> two words not uttered rad case lame. jim webb took stab at one of the geopolitical threats. china. deirdre: he was only one. >> he was odd man out. crickets when he responded.
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no mention ever radical islam. no mention of nuclear deal. with animates government of iran and animates isis and al-shabaab? no serious ability or willingness to take on the threat that animates, ideology that animates our threats. because of political correctness they can't even mention it. deirdre: so in your mind, radical islam is the number one threat to u.s. security? >> i think so. geopolitically i think jim webb is right. china is the one government that can kill us than syria or iran. crickets from the left-leaning audience. this field is going, very, very far left. the fact that joe biden is the centrist is pretty appalling. >> interestingly enough a lot of people are saying that is in fact sanders's point to pull discussion to the left. seems as if last night that is exactly what happened. thank you as always. former state department official joining me there. back to my power political
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panel, anticipated grudge match, hillary clinton, bernie sanders facing off last night. >> tonight i want to talk, not about my emails but what the american people want from the next president of the united states. >> senator sanders? >> let me say this. [cheers and applause] let me say something that may not be great politics. but i think the secretary is right. and that is, that the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails. >> thank you. me too. deirdre: so at least for dramatics tension that was the highlight of the night but mercedes did sanders do clinton a favor, if so, by how much? >> absolutely. i mean bernie sanders came to hillary clinton's rescue. it was only lincoln chafee came out trying to be critical about the email scandal. she basically responded, no. and then bernie sanders just handed her a gift by saying, you know, no one cares about the emails.
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well, bernie you're wrong! americans care about emails. majority of americans believe that hillary clinton lied about her emails and are concerned about these scandals following through if she were to become president. deirdre: cliff, as far as trustworthiness quotient for hillary clinton how did her answers stack up to you? >> i mean i thought most of them were actually pretty good answers. if you're talking about that specific back and forth with bernie sanders absolutely he did her a favor. we know from the benghazi committee, from mr. mccarthy that was political witch-hunt from beginning. he admitted it on tv. would love to see my republican friends worked up undercover agents outed during nuclear proliferation when scooter libby. >> why do you keep going back to bush? >> that was your last guy. had pretty terrible record. that was your last guy, pretty much stunk at everything he did. when you have another guy we can talk about him.
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deirdre: we'll move forward. thank you both in the meantime. republican strategist mercedes schlapp, joining me there and cliff schechter, joining me there, democratic strategist. thank you both for your time and input. like lively discussion. when we come back, walmart losing more than $20 billion of market value in just under 20 minutes. that happened earlier today. my next guest says it es all because of the debate on a minimum wage. actress jennifer lawrence penning a essay on hollywood sexism. my next guest says it was her fault she wasn't getting paid enough. vice president's biden anti-podium may have been real winner last night. jimmy fallon weighed in. >> tonight is the first democratic debate over on cnn and get this. did you hear they had an extra podium ready just in case joe biden decided he joined race. [laughing]
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switch to liberty mutual and you could save up to $509 call today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. >> walmart, walmarts you're no good. treat your workers like you should. walmart, walmart, you're no good. treat your workers like you should. deirdre: rising wages, part of what is hitting america's biggest retailer. walmart stock dropping more than 10%. it is now at its lowest level since 1988. so the company cut its profit forecast incomes two years and rising wages certainly a big part of the picture. back with me now, gary, glad you're here, gary kaltbaum of course. very happy to have you back as
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well, jared levy. gary, starting with you. is this more about e-commerce or the price of labor in the stores? >> it is a combination. competition is tough but look, when you have government and unions pounding away, and mandating higher costs without an equivalent amount of productivity, things are going to happen and it is going to be lower profits and two words come to mind, pink slips. you will start to see some of that if things start to worsen. don't forget robots. you see a lot of technology getting involved. be careful what you wish for by unions. they will not like what they see at end of the road. deirdre: jared, what is your take? is this just a natural progress? that is to say, gary just pointed out, there are more robots doing more human jobs. is it more about e-commerce or something going particularly wrong at walmart? >> gary's right as well. the question was earlier, like
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do you want a dollar raise or want to be laid off? that unfortunately what a lot of employers will unfortunately face. walmart has lost their way in terms of e-commerce. go to site like amazon, funny, yesterday on "varney," i said amazon is walmart in 1988. i think growth potential is amazing. walmart lost that. you go to the website it is clunky and doesn't have the customer service amazon does. amazon, highly automated and huge employer. e-commerce, wage increases. they're fighting against the stigma, big walmart came in and took our jobs. there has been sort after transition from buying locally, buying providers in your area and staying away from walmarts. they have a lot of changes to do. the executives said they're a growth company. they're a company in change right now, in transition. i would be really careful owning the stock from an investment perspective. deirdre: to your point they're
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definitely facing margin compression behind the two-year forecast warning. also facing more competition with gas and food. gary kaltbaum, thank you very much and jared levy. happy to have you here. another stock alert to tell you about. netflix plunging after a huge miss. our next guest says your subscription could go even higher now. last night hillary clinton saying democrats do a better job with the economy. former reagan economist art laffer is with me. he strongly disagrees. actress jennifer lawrence penning an essay on hollywood sexism. she took the advice of former sony chair amy pascal to heart. my next guest said that is a good idea. >> i run a business. people want to work for less money i will pay them less money. i don't call them up, can i pay you more? that's not what you do when you run a business.
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>> truth is, what women have to do is not work for less money.
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you have to walk away. people shouldn't be so grateful for jobs. i shouldn't be greatful. if you shouldn't be grateful. people should know what they're worth and say no. deirdre: that is former sony pictures head amy pascal defending herself after the company's massive email hack last year. the emails revealed a staggering gender pay gap between female and male actors. jennifer lawrence wrote an essay agreeing with sony. i didn't get mad at sony, i got mad at myself. i failed as negotiator because i gave up early. she is editor of the blog conservative black chick. fobs news legal analyst, -- fox news legal analyst, lis wiehl, the 51% majority. great to have you with me. i will start with you.
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j law as tabloids refer to you, she was clear taking responsibility. she said she is young and it is my fault but that said the system failed her clearly. >> jennifer lawrence admitted she was making so much money. she is right now the highest paid actress in hollywood. deirdre: now she is. >> well, she said she was more concerned with being liked as a female, then squabbling over a few more millions which she didn't need. here is where hollywood really shouldn't talk about pay inequality. jennifer lawrence, they're getting paid outrageous salaries, many studies showed women are really bad negotiators when it comes to asking for what we're worth. i think amy pascal has a point. i experienced this myself. i tell younger people, you don't ask what you're worth. nobody will throw free money at you. telling it just like it is. i think hollywood is unique bubble. actresses, you want more millions, ask for it. deirdre: lis, you wrote a book on this subject. what is your take?
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>> my take is the law has been in place for a long time, since 1963, the equal pay act. employers have to pay equal pay for equal work. now employers can skirt around that by duties might be a little different or one person might be more senior than others. face it women are doing equal pay and doing equal work for not equal pay and i do agree that is because i think in large measure, we're reticent to ask for what we think we are. also because employers, unless it's a federal government agency, they don't tell us what the males make and women make. unless you talk with your counterparts and people in the work place, really don't like to do that, you don't know necessarily that you're being paid less than the guy next door. deirdre: that does illustrate the legal -- i want to bring in the one quote because "gq" picked it up, because bradley cooper who co-starred with jennifer lawrence in
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"american hustle" supported her 150%. i don't think i ever worked for a man in charge spent time contemplating what angle to have his voice to be heard of the it is just heard. your point crystal, stop complaining, fight for yourself. >> no. but jennifer is exactly right again. men have different approach to money. it is just business, right? we get all twisted up because we're emotional creatures. so we have a hard time. we want to be liked. i think that is way we're socialized. >> exactly. what our value to be rewarded, people like us working from managerial standpoint. want everyone like us to our cookies and we're loathe to think that somebody wouldn't like us because we might ask for more money. deirdre: lis we'll, excellent conversation. crystal, so glad to have you here. jennifer lawrence thinks she didn't negotiate because she feared coming off as spoiled. we'll talk how you can negotiate a higher salary.
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news editor in chafe adrian larson with me. brass tacks, what should people do with regard to gender? >> unfortunately can't be regardless of gender because study after study, men and women can say the exact same thing, act the exact same way and they will be treated differently. this is so true when it comes to negotiation. deirdre: all right. what do you tell people? >> right. so the first thing is to do your research. the most powerful thing to do know what you're worth and know what you want and know what you want. you can do research on line. ask people on men and women. talk to recruiters. know what you're worth and ask for. deirdre: stop you there. we're now with the information age glass door. other sites similar where you actually look up what your pier groups in an industry are paid within a range? >> exactly. pay scale.com.
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the muse.com has resources. she nexts.com are wonderful sites to hupp put together research. deirdre: that is good first step. what es, adrian, while we have you. >> number two, don't focus on just yourself, what you can do, what you can do to the negotiating partner and the organization. women have better success rate negotiating when they have communal approach. not just about that. deirdre: here is what i can do for you. also sticking to the facts so to speak, right? stay logical. >> exactly. number three, stick to the facts. stay positive, don't be pushy, as jennifer found, she wrote it about in her essay. was blunt and shared her opinion she got treated differently than the men did. important to stay positive. deirdre: thanks for joining us. editor-in-chief at the muse. your salary may be down or may not be. gold is going up.
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it is past $100 an ounce. rather $1100 an ounce. that is a big move. star from the hit show gold rush will be joining me shortly. you will want to see that. why are they going to ikea to take new dating profile pictures? it's a new trend. guys are saying it helps get them more dates by looking more stable. plus reaction to the first democratic debate. donald trump tweeting how boring it was. also something else that bernie sanders said, at a former reagan economist art laffer says is just plain wrong. >> something that will be nice to sigh about tonight's debate, right? in fact people would turn on democratic debate for a few minutes and fall asleep. cnn, it still count. ratings are ratings. wee will take it. honestly we don't care. leave it on
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. >> what democratic socialism is about is saying it is immoral and wrong that the top 1/10 of 1% in this country own almost 90%, own almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%. we should look to countries like denmark, like sweden, and norway and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people. deirdre: democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders saying the u.s. should look to denmark for a better economic model.
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former economic adviser to ronald reagan, art laffer with me now. strongly disagrees. art, it is great to have you here. thanks for the time. so norway as admirable as it is, or sweden or any of the other countries, around 4 million people. we have around 300 million people. so when you were working on policy, how did you figure that out in your head? art laffer: let me just tell you that i do agree with bernie sanders. i think we should do a lot of things that denmark and sweden are doing, for example, in denmark there's only say% inheritance tax. corporate tax is way lower than corporate tax, if you look at sweden, no inheritance tax or gift tax, you can give as much money to anyone at any time with no tax implications whatsoever. just to take bernie sanders a little further which is humorous, their income, the income per capita in denmark is 20% lower than the u.s. in per capita.
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the income in sweden per capita is 20% below the u.s. they've grown much lower since the trough of the great recession, a little less than 1% and we're a little less than 2%. i don't know what he's talking about. in norway, it's a hoot when he says that, one of the biggest oil reserves of all countries. they've got this huge sovereign wealth fund just from foichlt you can get the u.s. to get the oil fund, we would be looking to north dakota or alaska or wyoming to get that, then maybe we could do better, too. but these countries have not performed all this well, and in many of the areas, policies are much better than ours which bernie sanders, does he want to take the inheritance tax to zero? is that what anti-capitalist thing is to do? come on! >> i'm sorry, i'm happy to hear it, this is why we want you on from experience to say this is where it checks out and this is where it doesn't. when you talk about lower salaries, the reason for the salary cap, as i understand it
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there is because there is this greater social system, which bernie sanders love him or hate him, he is not trying to hide. he has come out and said i'm a democratic socialist. he is consistent with his own branding. art laffer: and with sweden, they have voucher systems in the schools all over the place. fully funded social welfare system not like our social security system. theirs is fully funded. both of the countries moved sharply to the right in the last ten years, both denmark and sweden. i don't know where bernie sanders gets his facts. maybe it was back when the stock market was at 125, just joking. deirdre: we have to check hillary as well. she says the economy has done a lot better under democrats. >> if you look at the republicans versus the democrats when it comes to economic policy, there is no comparison. the economy does better when you have a democrat in the white house, and that's why we need to have a democrat in the
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white house in january 2017. deirdre: art, she made her argument, she made her point but you could argue this a lot of the blowups happen on someone else's watch. art laffer: i don't think the issue is republican or democrat. i'm a kennedy democrat from the 60s because of his pro-growth tax cut policies, balancing the budget, spending restraint and strong military. i'm a reagan republican from the 80s. i voted for bill clinton twice. he cut taxes dramatically across the board, cut government spending, a share of gdp. got rid of the retirement test for social security. did all of those wonderful things. question is what policies do they follow? not what party is he a member of. i don't consider myself a republican or democrat, i consider myself a pro-growth supply side tax cutter, spending retrainer, with minimal regulations which has been the democratic agenda as well as sometime the republican in the opposite way. she is the antithesis of her
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husband. everything she is espousing would work differently for bill clinton. it's not that she is a clinton. not that she has a big d next to her name. the issue is policies, she does not espouse the policies that made clinton a great president and very proud to have voted for bill clinton twice, i would not vote for her given what she's espousing today. deirdre: i like the point, focus on the issues and not on the labels. art laffer: exactly. deirdre: thanks for the time. art laffer a former reagan economic adviser. glad to have the time and the insight. when we come back, democratic candidates pushing big spending initiatives last night. no mention, zero that is, of our $18 trillion national debt and how it may be hurting you as home. and users of the popular online dating app tinder heading to ikea to take online profile pictures.
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we will tell you why and what went wrong? and gold hitting a three-month high, who better to have on than the stars of the discovery show's hit show gold rush. what they're looking for and what pricing? >> dude, look at the size of that bad boy. >> that's awesome. >> sweet. it really opens the passages. waiter. water. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. the has unlimited access is thatto information,tion no matter where they are. the microsoft cloud gives our team the power to instantly deliver critical information to people, whenever they need it. here at accuweather, we get up to 10 billion data requests every day. the cloud allows us to scale up so we can handle that volume. we can help keep people safe; and to us that feels really good.
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. deirdre: netflix down more than 14%, right after it posted its disappointing earnings. right now it is recovering in this post market trade, but disappointing subscriber growth in the u.s., lower profits, higher costs for content and expansion, some of the reasons giving flybridge capital partners matt witheiler, gerri willis is here, and scott carnet. glad to have you all here. so netflix, at least on one line i saw blaming the fact that people changed up their credit cards which you said is ridiculous. >> it's kind of a joke.
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so they're using the poor subscriber growth and blaming that on the fact people got chip and p.i.n. credit cards this quarter and some people had new numbers and the new numbers aren't working so netflix is blaming like a shell game, it's nice and a convenient excuse, i don't know how much reality it is. >> nobody wants to spend time in women's prison. who wants to do that? i can do it on my own, right? >> women's prison, how do you get in there? deirdre: orange is the new black, write yourself in, scott. as it turns out, the cost of making original content is expensive. >> but let's look at the history here. i think probably the greatest pivot in all time. he messed up kind of going from dvds to streaming, ended up doing it brilliantly. don't beg into this guy. 14 points and find its way up. >> i used to have one in my
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neighborhood, i don't anymore. deirdre: one of the worst thoughts to look back at is the blockbuster ceo saying i don't think the streaming thing is going to take off. >> the vintage people didn't think so. timing is the most important one, and the fact that -- deirdre: hear that humbling advice, founders. >> boy, he hit it, when everyone else starts streaming was further away and he made the pivot into it, you got to give him a lot of credit, and don't sell this guy short. deirdre: speaking of not selling people short, i don't know if you know this, there are apparently people who go to ikea, tape online photos with the intent to look more stable. is this the new tiger, matt? >> can we be scared for society when this starts happening? deirdre: i like the choice of ikea which is normally an extraordinarily stressful place for people. >> you know these guys are
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millennials. they'd have to be, nobody would think of that? >> we have to leave you out this because we're guys. better picture is probably forgetting the date but since the objective of tinder, last i checked was to get the girl home when she walks into your kitchen and it's not your kitchen, she leaves your home. deirdre: and the pizza eating rat, okay, i'm done. >> we know what tinder is made for, honesty in that relationship is probably the thing. >> i shouldn't be going to the dealership and taking picture in front of a car? >> a tiger in a ferrari. there you go. >> you'll have more looks filling the funnel at the top of the ferrari. >> my mind is reeling. deirdre: on that note, thank you all for stopping by. matt witheiler, gerri willis and scott kurnit.
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the stars of the hit show "gold rush" are here. it's going to be cool. democratic candidates pushing big spending initiatives since last night. my next guest thinks we should tighten our belt on the $18 trillion national debt which didn't come up once. you totalled your brand new car.
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. >> when you walk around the world, you see every other major country providing health care to all people as a right. >> i want to enhance the benefits for the poorest recipients of social security. >> every kid in this country should be able to get a high school education regardless of the income of their family.
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i think we have to say that is true for everybody going to college. >> i want to open up the opportunity for immigrants to be able to buy into the exchanges under the affordable care act. deirdre: democratic candidates pushing big spending initiatives last night. here's sound, though, of them weighing in on the $18 trillion national debt -- as you can tell from the crickets, that subject did not come up once. it's coming up now with bob rice. so bob, first and foremost, this was the elephant in the room. reason for the crickets, can the u.s. actually save money by leaving this national number where it is at 18 trillion? >> by not raising the debt ceiling, right? no. and the weird reason, the horrible reason, the dirty little secret behind all of this is congress is out using
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the credit card all along. deirdre: since the end of world war ii, right? >> absolutely, both parties to blame over years and years of decades but especially rung up huge debts. we already owe the money, and now the question is how are we going to pay those debts that we've already incurred if we don't raise the national debt ceiling, we won't be able to make the payments. >> when you hear candidates, for example, last night, talking about free health care, free education, all the other benefits and you hear the counterarguments saying there's no way this can be added, but not, not, not, add onto the national debt number, right? >> not necessarily. the real point, whatever we do or don't do in the future is going to require national spending bills. the debt ceiling if we raise it doesn't allow congress to spend more money, you have to have spending bills to spend more
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money. we can't pay the credit card debt essentially without raising the debt ceiling if we don't raise the debt ceiling we're going to default on debt, and everybody at home knows what it means to not pay your bills. we as a country can't do that. deirdre: basically, we end up like greece? >> we would be in default like greece. people would say so what. greece got over it. for us, what it would mean the capital markets would require they would raise our interest rates because we wouldn't be as reliable a debtor anymore. and if our interest rates going up, get this statistic. it's amazing, gives you impression how big the national debt really is. if the interest rate on our national debt went from about 2% which is what it is now, to the historical average of 5.5%, the difference, the increased interest cost each year would be equal to the entire budget of the u.s. military. that's how big our debt is, and that's what increased interest rates would mean. deirdre: that is a pretty
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sobering view. glad for the perspective, bob rice joining me there, tangent capital partners. when we come back on "risk & reward," talking about jack lew. our liz claman will be speaking with jack lew, as you know he said congress must raise that number. that $18 trillion national debt figure. when we come back, gold reaching new highs over $1100 an ounce. the dow as you know dropping in triple digits. who better to get the view on gold from discovery's "gold rush," todd hoffman cashing in on the precious metal after this.. >> we got a serious issue. we've got an excavator almost underwater. >> stop. >> get out of my way! >> holy crap. what the frick?
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♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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>> todd has opened a monster. >> not this year. >> but success in the gold fields of the north never comes easy. >> got an emergency down here. >> i need help now. >> maybe you wrote a check you can't cash. deirdre: that was a clip from discovery's number one raid show gold rush. this season it is a battle like never before among the crews. will they push through danger to find the most gold yet? the price of gold, by the way, today hitting the three-month high so now the stakes bigger than ever and todd hoffman is here with us. >> thanks for having me. you know, i brought a nugget, people like to see gold. you've got to carry it around. look at that big nugget right there. deirdre: actually -- >> do you have gold fever now? you can kind of tell. deirdre: yeah. >> i really do. i'm looking in your eyes, i'm thinking you might have gold fever.
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deirdre: a -- >> put the nugget back there. deirdre: all right. your father, and 16-year-old son are in this business with you. >> right. deirdre: you came back from a bankruptcy, there's a lot on the line for you. >> yeah, last year we did $1.6 million worth of goal, our goals are big so we're set up for something super amazing. this year on gold rush, i think you're going to see some crazy things probably that we've never seen in years past. so. deirdre: so as far as working continuously for generations, i mean you entered the trade in 2010 so this is still relatively new for you. >> right. you know, i went ahead and i said, dad, this is our last chance. if we're going to mine again, this is the one chance we're goin let's do it and then i had a weird idea. you know, this might be a -- make a good reality show. so i called a little company in england, they came out, we shot the pilot and away we go
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with discovery channel. so here we are. deirdre: and it is the most successful show on the channel. it turns out, you know, something about programming, something about gold, we wish you all the best of luck. thanks for coming in. todd hoffman there from gold rush. thank you for joining us. charles payne is here now with making money. charles: walmart crashes and everybody wonders is this something to come for america or higher minimum wage or just a giant. it could be all of the above. and vladimir putin is ready to attack the town, we're talking about a gigantic middle east power ship. and after the debate one thing is clear. these folks don't like the foundation of america. more changes to come maybe. making money starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪

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